Great British Hobbit League

For all discussions regarding various LOTR gaming events.

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Warrior
 
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Re: Great British Hobbit League

Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:52 pm

Well since the results for the first Throne of Skulls are contentious to say the least, I think we should probably ignore the results of the first one. It was the first time Throne of Skulls was ran for LotR/TH, there were some issues to to human error by both attendees and during data input, so while it was a fantastic weekend of gaming, we can't be sure of the overall picture - even Owen's analysis is probably incomplete, as we don't know the true extent to which people entered themselves in the wrong category.

Personally, as much as I'd love to sit here and go "Oh no, use the official results so I can have lots of points", that'd frankly be a dick-ish thing to do. I agree that, had people entered themselves in the correct category, Tom Harrison would probably have won. But since we don't really know, I think the least contentious thing to do is simply to start the scoring for the league at the Close Encounters event. This also means we can think a bit more about how to translate ToS scoring to league scoring (I've already had doubts about my suggestion).

Of course, I realise I come at this with something of a vested interest, so what do others think?
James

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Ranger
 
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Re: Great British Hobbit League

Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:51 pm

I agree with you James and I know you wouldn't want to put yourself on the top from the very beginning when you know that the results were likely not fair. However, for the sake of having points and make it more attractive to new players I think it would be good to have a base of results to start with. As you know I wanted to count only best X tournaments of each player, so mistakes in a single event don't bother me at the moment.

As for the League News at the moment we have interest from East Grinstead club as well, meaning that we are likely to have:

2 Tournaments in London with Titan Wargames (March and another month)
2 Tournaments in Stockport (April and another month)
2 Tournaments in East Grinstead (It looks like June to start with) - This is east of London.
2 Tournaments in Nottingham (ToS and Doubles, unless we decide to scrap the idea of including these two because they're not exactly tournaments?).
1 Tournament in Devon (this is more of a 'hope' rather than something I'm positive about)

Anyone else? Manchester GW player (Ash) mentioned at some point they could try to organise something.

Here's the ranking for everybody to see as an example of how things will work if we go ahead with this. I think for now let's keep the ToS results with the possibility of them being removed later in the year once the league picks up. The first official tournament is the 24th March one.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... sp=sharing
BlackMist - 2 times UK LotR Champion.
Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League.
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Re: Great British Hobbit League

Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:14 pm

Further thoughts regarding ToS scoring then:

The current ToS scoring system gives weighting to the army list you use, which would not be the case in the rest of the tournaments on the scene (presumably). This could mean, for example, that a player could use the same army throughout the season, but while in all other events they would place higher than other players who had won less games, in ToS they could potentially score behind them.

This is of course, the intention of the ToS scoring system. However, the rest of the events in the GBHL (acronyms! Yeaaaah!) will not be scored with this intention. Therefore, should the ToS scoring system be normalised (maths! Yeaaaah!) more towards this style?

An example of this could be ranking first on Tournament Score (i.e. Games Points + Sporting), then on In-faction Performance (i.e. how much you beat the rest of your faction by). This removes the benefit for using a less used army, but takes away any aspect of 'gaming' the system by using a less used army.

On another note, in your original rules, you note a standardised way of transforming a ranked results sheet into GBHL (that catchy acronym again!) points. How do you see this working for a non-normal tournament, such as doubles, or any events that use alternative rules (such as pairing for a single game, as we saw at Hunting for Trolls)?

I am playing Sauron's advocate a bit here, but I'm just trying to throw curveballs about before they come up for real. So hopefully any tricky situations that do come up, we will already have thought about.

GBHL. It's a thing. :D
James

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Re: Great British Hobbit League

Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:52 pm

I actually thought that gaming the system in ToS is a cool idea. It shows that a player is aware of what works and what doesn't within the game and instead of only going for winning all games he decides to try to win with an army that might normally be inferior. It will show a player who is well versed in many ways of playing that wins. I also had an idea that it would be good to have as many different-points tournaments, instead of just playing a standard 500 or 1000 all the time. More difficulties with making armylists and army choices leads to more exciting competition in my opinion.

Of course there's the luck of the draw and the likelyhood of mistakes made by the events team... which then pushes me towards simple win/loss ranking with complete ignorance of the mean because it's highly unreliable. Decisions decisions...

On another note, in your original rules, you note a standardised way of transforming a ranked results sheet into GBHL (that catchy acronym again!) points. How do you see this working for a non-normal tournament, such as doubles, or any events that use alternative rules (such as pairing for a single game, as we saw at Hunting for Trolls)?

I'm not sure what you mean here. The results are essentially:
1st - 100
2nd - Less than 1st
3rd - Less than 2nd
etc.
So whether you played in a team for a part of the tournament or whether you played doubles doesn't play any role because essentially you're still ranked within the tournament and GBHL only takes that ranking and applies the points to it.
In the event of a doubles event you could have 2 players on 1st, 2 players on 2nd. But in the event of a semi-doubles you are still essentially ranked on a singles-style ranking.
BlackMist - 2 times UK LotR Champion.
Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League.
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Warrior
 
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Re: Great British Hobbit League

Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:38 pm

BlackMist wrote:I actually thought that gaming the system in ToS is a cool idea. It shows that a player is aware of what works and what doesn't within the game and instead of only going for winning all games he decides to try to win with an army that might normally be inferior. It will show a player who is well versed in many ways of playing that wins. I also had an idea that it would be good to have as many different-points tournaments, instead of just playing a standard 500 or 1000 all the time. More difficulties with making armylists and army choices leads to more exciting competition in my opinion.


Don't get me wrong, I really like the ToS format - I just wondered whether you think that conformity to the majority should be more important. ToS also gives a great base for in-faction competition, which I'm a big fan of.

BlackMist wrote:I'm not sure what you mean here. The results are essentially:
1st - 100
2nd - Less than 1st
3rd - Less than 2nd
etc.
So whether you played in a team for a part of the tournament or whether you played doubles doesn't play any role because essentially you're still ranked within the tournament and GBHL only takes that ranking and applies the points to it.
In the event of a doubles event you could have 2 players on 1st, 2 players on 2nd. But in the event of a semi-doubles you are still essentially ranked on a singles-style ranking.


Cool - keeping it simple is always best. Just wondered whether you were considering any adjustment for team participation or anything, but you're right - just apply the ranking for the team to the individuals, simplez.

I'm excited! :D
James

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Re: Great British Hobbit League

Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:35 pm

I agree with BM. Its nice to have some points in.
It will be balanced out quickly as people attend tournaments more and more.
As long as Tom and Sam don't win this next tournament all is well otherwise I call that we null the whole first part of the year! haha

Yeah my results are 95% right but there is still the issue of people giving most sporting to people they never played (booo hisss) and the possibility that another person or 2 were in the wrong catagory.
We will have had 3 extra tournaments done by July so we can always reassess the inclusion of ToS if needed.

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Re: Great British Hobbit League

Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:16 pm

Mik, how are you dealing with people who attend 1 or 2 tournaments?
For example the ToS could now not attend any further tournaments and be at the maximum or are you saying his 3 best tournaments count so he gets 100, 0, 0 for his averages at the end of the year unless he attends 2 other tournaments.

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Re: Great British Hobbit League

Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:12 pm

Instead of averaging I'm adding them. If there are 3 tournaments, you are ranked from best two, hence if you won 2 and didn't attend 1, you're on 200/200. If you won 3 you're still on 200/200, if you won 1 and not attended the other two you're on 100/200.

This is exactly the same as if you were to average, say you win 3 out of 3 you're on 100/100. If you win 2 out of 3 you're still on 100/100, but if you attended and won 1 and not attended the other 2 you're on (100+0)/2 = 50/100.

If we have 8+ tournaments, the maximum score you can get is 500, regardless whether you won 5 or won 8 because only best 5 will count. I understand that not everybody can attend everything, hence I'm saying half + 1 effectively.

In other words don't worry if you don't attend the one in 2 weeks, you'll still have plenty of chances to catch up with Sam or whoever else that might be above you after 2 events.
BlackMist - 2 times UK LotR Champion.
Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League.
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Re: Great British Hobbit League

Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:09 am

Ranking update after 2 tournaments!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... fYnc#gid=0

In the lead:
1. Tom H
2. James B (LotRChampion)
3. Jamie B (The Newbie)
4. Damian O
5. Sam J

We now have 64 registered players.
BlackMist - 2 times UK LotR Champion.
Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League.
Click to view the rankings
Join the Facebook group to stay up to date with the latest Tournaments

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Re: Great British Hobbit League

Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:00 pm

Thanks for doing this Mik, I'm Damian O by the way, figured you might want to update usernames etc.

Great to see all on Sunday, twas a good day.

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