Radagast Q and Spirit Grasp Q

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Radagast Q and Spirit Grasp Q

Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:32 pm

Hey got a couple of questions.
First off what does Radagast's Beastwalk ability actuelly do?? I think it allows charge D6+6 and get +6/+2 dice in combat(as though it was cavalry) But my mate reckons it just gives them D6+6. This kind of ties in with Glorfindel's Ride asfoloth ride, and now im not so sure what that does either.

Second question, if a formation with spirit grasp fights another formation do i use the enemy hero's(if they have one) courage as the courage(and thus defence) of the entire formation? I also take it that courage modifiers also apply here.

Squire
 
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Re: Radagast Q and Spirit Grasp Q

Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:30 am

Radagast's ability says they charge D6+6", it doesn't say anything at all about the other benefits of cavalry. They just get the distance.

The Spirit Grasp rule is a little harder. My take is that the rules for heroes say that the formation that contains the hero uses the hero's courage, but when a formation of spirits is making an attack, it is the SPIRITS that are using the target's formation courage, the targets aren't actually doing anything at all. That reasoning, combined with the fact that most formations with spirit grasp are rather over costed to begin with leads me to say that spirit grasp does not use the hero's courage. There is certainly room for debate on that point though.

Other courage modifiers are another matter however. Remember, a hero doesn't actually modify his formation's courage value, he just allows his formation to use his courage. If something is modifying the formation's courage directly, a taskmaster for instance, then I would say that the spirits are striking vs the modified courage.

Hope that all made sense.

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Re: Radagast Q and Spirit Grasp Q

Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:14 pm

The courage thing sounds correct, if it didnt, it really does make WotD naff. I lost half just to archery then when in combat gothmog's courage made them useless.

As for Radagast it says "charge D6+6, as if they were calvalry" Glorfindel says "moves and charges like a flying monster". What bonuses do each get then exactly?

I dont understand why they would put "as if they were calvary" if it didnt mean anything. They dont move like cavalry but they do charge like cavalry. If it was simply just extra charge distance whats the point of those extra words?

AMBIGUOUS RULES!! i dislike them

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Re: Radagast Q and Spirit Grasp Q

Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:10 am

adragonsfang wrote:The courage thing sounds correct, if it didnt, it really does make WotD naff. I lost half just to archery then when in combat gothmog's courage made them useless.

As for Radagast it says "charge D6+6, as if they were calvalry" Glorfindel says "moves and charges like a flying monster". What bonuses do each get then exactly?

I dont understand why they would put "as if they were calvary" if it didnt mean anything. They dont move like cavalry but they do charge like cavalry. If it was simply just extra charge distance whats the point of those extra words?

AMBIGUOUS RULES!! i dislike them


The rule of spirit grasp is easy to debate, but it would make sense that it's the formations courage value, because they're hitting the warriors, not the character.

As for Radagast, it does say his formation charges the same distance as cavalry, but not as cavalry. So Radagast's formation (unless it is cavalry) gets the infantry charge bonus. Glorfindel does receive the charge bonus for being a flying monster because he moves and charges like a flying monster.

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Re: Radagast Q and Spirit Grasp Q

Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:13 pm

well not to get technical but i will. The words "AS if they were calvary" ARE stated on Radagast's Beastwalk. So your saying that "as if they were" and "like" arn't synonymous? Cause from my GCSE English knowledge they are?

I just dont get why Glorfindel gets his flying monster charge bonus from the words "charges like" when Radagast doesnt get calvary charge bonus from the words "charges....as if they were"?

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Re: Radagast Q and Spirit Grasp Q

Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:30 pm

adragonsfang wrote:well not to get technical but i will. The words "AS if they were calvary" ARE stated on Radagast's Beastwalk.

But what is that clause referring to in Radagast's rule? "as if they were cavalry" is not a complete sentence in and of itself, it is a clause that modifies (in the grammatical sense) "They move this far when they charge".

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Re: Radagast Q and Spirit Grasp Q

Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:06 pm

ForgottenLore wrote:
adragonsfang wrote:well not to get technical but i will. The words "AS if they were calvary" ARE stated on Radagast's Beastwalk.

But what is that clause referring to in Radagast's rule? "as if they were cavalry" is not a complete sentence in and of itself, it is a clause that modifies (in the grammatical sense) "They move this far when they charge".


Ok gramatically it is odd and would suggest what you say. But in the sense of rules there is no reason for it to be there if the rule only adds D6+6. How does "as if they are cavalry" change any rules that "charge D6+6" doesnt? It seems pointless to include those 5 words if they dont do anything?

As for Glorfindel, does that mean he charges D6+8 or the usual monster D6+4??

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Re: Radagast Q and Spirit Grasp Q

Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:34 am

adragonsfang wrote:
ForgottenLore wrote:
adragonsfang wrote:well not to get technical but i will. The words "AS if they were calvary" ARE stated on Radagast's Beastwalk.

But what is that clause referring to in Radagast's rule? "as if they were cavalry" is not a complete sentence in and of itself, it is a clause that modifies (in the grammatical sense) "They move this far when they charge".


Ok gramatically it is odd and would suggest what you say. But in the sense of rules there is no reason for it to be there if the rule only adds D6+6. How does "as if they are cavalry" change any rules that "charge D6+6" doesnt? It seems pointless to include those 5 words if they dont do anything?

As for Glorfindel, does that mean he charges D6+8 or the usual monster D6+4??


Glorfindel does charge as a flying monster.

For Radagast, it has nothing to do with synonyms. What the writer decided to do was use a pointless simile that not only wastes ink, time, and space, but also confuses the hell out of most people. It says "In addition, they charge D6+6", as if they were cavalry." That doesn't imply that they charge as cavalry, it is saying it's similar to the way cavalry charge. It's in no way, shape, or form gramatically odd.

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Re: Radagast Q and Spirit Grasp Q

Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:16 am

I meant to say the rule is odd cause gramitically the 5 words describe the rule. I too hate them adding stuff for no reason or for "completeness", it does my head in. It feels like they never even proof read the damn rulebook.
Also you didnt answer my Glorfindel question! I already know he "charges like a flying monster" it says just as much in his rules, but does that mean for all intencive purposes he acts as a flying monster(except when another rule specifically states a flying monster, then he doesn't) So the charge distance the charge bonus, difficult terrain modifier(or lack of it) etc?

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Re: Radagast Q and Spirit Grasp Q

Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:51 pm

adragonsfang wrote:I too hate them adding stuff for no reason or for "completeness", it does my head in. It feels like they never even proof read the damn rulebook.

Yes, it does feel that way, but the book is full of stuff like that. All the Epic Heroes that have Pathfinder, or Orcbane, or Spirit Walk/Grasp and so on have been confusing new players since the game came out.

Very annoying.

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