War in Eregion

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War in Eregion

Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:42 pm

Hi All!

The forums are a little sleepy lately, I think most of us frequent One Ring so don't bother double posting on here as well. Anyway, I know there is still a different and active bunch of people on here so I think we could all work on something together (as you have the time, no big commitments needed). That thing would be ... War in Eregion.

I have been thinking of this topic for some time now and have been doing some design and background work for a few months with the intention of collating it into a supplement at the end. I would like to invite all of you to give feedback, come up with your own ideas or just post smilies to encourage people for their contributions :D. Seriously, if you are reading this, please post a smiley even if you have nothing else to say, at least then I can get to know others in this community and who is still active.

I will not be taking this thread to One Ring, even though it might get more posts, because I want to encourage the community here. I tried one supplement over a year ago and didn't get much community feedback, but I'm willing to give it another try. If the result is that nobody posts, not even smilies, then it means to me that there is no community here any longer, and I will stop visiting this site. It would be very sad for me, so I hope that this doesn't happen. Please post any comments, whether in regards to site activity or the supplement, I am eager to hear your thoughts.

So without further ado, here is a bit of an overview of what I think would be easy to achieve over a few months and gives a bit of scope as to what we can all do to be involved.

Time Frame: 2nd Age, From 750 (founding of Eregion), but all the action happens between 1693 and 1701 so we will stick to that time frame for the most part.

Who: High Elves, Wood Elves, Orcs, Men (Good and Evil), Numenor, Dwarves.
This means that you can most likely paint the armies you were thinking of and use them to playtest games when they come around, lets kill 2 birds with one stone (sorry birdies). The only force that this really rules out is Isengard, as all the others can fit generally into the above races.

Main Characters: Annatar (Sauron), Celebrimbor, Celeborn, Elrond, Gil-Galad.
Other Characters: Numenorean King plus other non-canon - I am thinking an Orc hero, additional Elf hero, Hero of Men, Elite Elven guard, Annatar's Bodyguard.

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Re: War in Eregion

Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:10 pm

Here's a quick profile for the good hero, Celebrimbor, forger of the rings of power.

There is lots of scope for unique artifacts, trinkets and rings of power, as this guy made a lot of that stuff, but I can't think of much that seems to fit, so instead I went with a middle-ish range hero with exceptional armour to represent his skills as a blacksmith. Please leave feedback.

Celebrimbor is the Lord of Eregion and Ost-in-Edhil but subservient to Gil-Galad, the High King. Celebrimbor is not the most powerful of elf Lords, nor is he the most skilled in combat, but his love of metalwork and drive to fill Middle-Earth with joyful things has given him a great understanding of weapons and a drive to rid all foes from the land.

Celebrimbor, Lord of Eregion Points: 110
.. F ... S .. D . A .. W .. C . M/W/F
6/3+ . 4 .. 8 .. 2 ... 2 .. 6 .. 2/2/2

Wargear:
Elven Blade
Mithril Armour
Shield

Special Rules:
Woodland Creature
Master of Metal: If Celebrimbor has a higher fight value than his opponent, the opponents defense is reduced by the difference. This does not apply to any allies in the same fight.
Lord of Eregion: Celebrimbor is determined to see any threat to the land destroyed. Any time he charges a hero or multi wound model, he may call a free heroic strike.

My thoughts for this profile were to make a strong elf lord, as Celebrimbor rightfully is, but not have him as 3 attack like others who are described by tolkien as powerful. Thus I have given him 2 attacks, kept the might at 2, but given him the heroic strike special rules. Tolkien writes that he was mobbed and captured, so I want to represent this without making him a weak, 1 attack profile, so he basically counts as a regular captain vs orcs, but still has a strong chance to wound, making him useful. This makes up for not giving him rings of power or things like that, even though he made those so could conceivably have used those.
The high defence represents his strong relations with the dwarves of Khazad Dum.

The profile is based on a High Elf Captain, +5 pts for each stat as per usual taking him to 100 pts, then 5 pts more for each special rule (not woodland creature). Note, he does not have terror like other elves. Basing him off Erestor's profile would result in him being cheaper, but I wanted to keep him right between Gil Galad and Erestor if possible.

King's Guard Points: 16
.. F ... S .. D . A .. W .. C
6/3+ .. 3 . 8 .. 1 ... 1 .. 5

Wargear:
Elven Blade
Heavy armour
Shield
Spear....1pt

Special Rules:
Bodyguard
Woodland Creature
Ancient Fighters: After centuries of fighting in Elven shield walls and protecting their king, these elite warriors have become accustomed to being on the defensive and exploiting their foes weaknesses while they remain steadfast. 'King's guard' may shield but still make a single, unmodified attack if they win combat. This also applies when supporting another King's Guard.
Last edited by Hodush on Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: War in Eregion

Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:23 am

:D Haven't got anything much to add but I'll be watching this thread :)

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Re: War in Eregion

Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:03 pm

Thanks sneeze, that's exactly what I was after :)
I'll admit, I had not noticed your posts before in other threads :oops: nice to "meet" you anyway!

At the moment I am preparing to do a special banner for the evil side which is scenario based and gives (or rather takes) -2 courage from the elves and is immune to ranged weapons. It will be the objective for one of the scenarios but any advice on how the elves could be "buffed" to make up for it would be appreciated, otherwise it will just be costed at twice the normal banner price to even things up.
There is a painting competition on the Australia FB group for banners and the forces of darkness sculpting challenge on OR, which coincides nicely for me as motivation to get it done. I think I'll be using Grishnakh as the base model, adding some hair and possibly cleaning up the armour a bit more.

Other things in the works which I would appreciate ideas on are elite elven guard (foot) and a way to make them unique, perhaps they can resolve their special strikes even if they lose combat, but this would mean they absolutely must not have axes or swords/blades... or maybe the same special rule as Celebrimbor regarding the to wound roll. Let me know if you have any thoughts folks.

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Re: War in Eregion

Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:44 pm

:D
Check out my scenic base thread- viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7305&start=10

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Re: War in Eregion

Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:20 pm

I'm not surprised as I don't really post much but nice to meet you :)
Anyway I'll quickly warn you that I don't really know what I'm on about :oops: but someone needs to contribute to the topic as it's an interesting idea :)
I like the rules for celebrimbor and his one clear weakness is to being mobbed and you've made him unique. HoweverI I'd consider costing him a bit more....at the moment with his special rules he'll comfortably be wounding normal troops on 3's and often heroes on 3's or 4's with his heroic striking. I'd be tempted to cost his 'master of metals' rule at 5 or 10 points more (you're getting plus two to wound a lot of the time so 15'ish pts shouldn't be too much) As the lord of Eregion I feel like he deserves 3 will though I can understand the reduction in might if he's not as much of a fighter as other elf lords. Perhaps reduce his fight to 6 as well as Elrond only has this and it also helps limit his special rules effect. He also feels like he should have some kind of benifit to surrounding troops being a the lord of Eregion and that...perhaps just an extended standfast or something?? Just something I think a character like him should have. So
Celebrimbor, lord of Eregion
F 6/3 S4 D9 A2 W2 C6. M2 W3 F2 130pts

Equipment
Mithril armour
Shield
Hammer
(I'm not sure if you have third age total war but the smiths of Eregion on that look great and thats how I imagine them going to battle...then again def9 could be too much)

'Master of metals' If celebrimbor has a higher fight then his opponent reduce his oppenets defence value by the difference, this does not apply to allies in the same fight.
'Lord of Eregion' Due to his position of power and great renown celebrimbor is a figure of inspiration to fellow elves, because of this celebrimbor has a 12 inch standfast'
In addition such is celebrimbor's passion to rid his land of evil that on the turn he charges a multi wound or hero model he may call a heroic strike for free.

He's slighlty more powerful then your version and you might disagree with everything I say but it's something for you to muse over :)
Billy

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Re: War in Eregion

Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:54 pm

In terms of elited for elves there's two clear choices, either the smiths of eregion themselves or some form of king's guard unit. For the smiths I think they should have a huge defence and higher then normal strength to represent their profession as smiths. Something like
Smith of Eregion
F5/3 S4 D8 A1 W1 C5 14pts
Equipment
Mithril armour
Shield
Hammer

I feel like they should have a special rule of some form but can't think of any :( The reason for the high price is plus 1 fight courage and defence to khazad guards but the loss of bodyguard, Khazad guard could arguably cost a little more though and they should pay a premium for being a dwarfish unit in an elf list.)

While I'm at it
Kings guard
F6/3 S3 D5 A2 W1 C5 16 pts
Equimpent
Heavy armour
Spear....1pt
Shield....1 pt
'Bodyguard'
'Ancient fighters' After centuries of fighting in Elven shield walls and protecting their king these elven warriors have become acustomed to being on the defensive and exploiting their foes attacks. 'King's guard' may shield but still make a single attack if they win combat.
The special rule seems a bit powerful but they really rely on it to make up for the high cost value. They're great at holding chokepoints but 1 s3 hit isn't going to kill much...they're special rule could be op but let me know what you think :).
In regards to your banner, is -2 courage that much of a penalty for elves with orcs?? They haven't really got anything to exploit it apart from monsters who can be dealt with by heroes. If it's scenario based then perhaps treat it as a channeled fury?? Make it incredibly difficult for the Elves to cut through to but if it's their sole objective it shouldn't be too op?? Anyway enough of my ramblings muse on what I've said and let me know if there's anything that isn't completely silly :)
Billy (Excuse the poor grammar and spelling, I'm on my phone and really can't be bothered to spell check right now :oops:

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Re: War in Eregion

Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:36 pm

I'm here, though I don't post very much because I am more active on the One-Ring. But this thread might make me come back here more often, so keep it up. :D
"Fight! Fight to the last man!"-Gandalf the White

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Re: War in Eregion

Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:53 am

@mordor orc: Good to see ya again!
@whoelsebuthaldir Awesome man :)
@billy: Great ideas, none of them are silly at all, pretty spot on I would say! So you do know what you are talking about, even if you don't know it ;)

I think I will change him down to F6, I did want him to have some bonus vs heroes or almost be forcing them to have to spend might on heroic strike or winning the fight to make sure they didn't take too much damage. F6 definitely is better all round though for balancing.
Still thinking about D9.
I thought about the hammer but the reason I didn't go with it was that it is hard to pose in a miniature, which I am intending to sculpt myself. Another reason is that it almost cries out for S5, but If i give him High strength and defence, it just looks like i'm making an overpowered model, so for the moment decided to go with the more unique aspect of the fight value.
I think I would give the troops the special rule for being in a force with C-brim, that way he isn't overcosted and encourages a wider range of troops selection.

I love the flavour text that you included for the Kings Guard, awesome! In thinking about these chaps, I think if they were given 2A, then they wouldn't do much guarding, even with the shielding rule, but would instead be more likely to attack normally, hard to say. With spear support, 3A and higher FV, its like a hero in each fight, so I personally probably would not shield that often.

What do you think of alternating the Kings Guard and the Smiths around a bit? Give the smiths the hammers, 2A and maybe even S5, but drop them to D5. The kings guard would go up to D8, retain the Ancient Fighters rule and possibly pick up bodyguard. This way they would shield most of the time as the only benefit to fighting normally would be from special strikes or spear support. If its not too wordy to explain, the KG could support another KG, still shield, and end up with 4A, 2 to wound but pay the price by bunching 30pts together and getting mobbed very quickly.

Yeah the banner seems ok now that I think about it and a fury or additional buff would go well in scenario at least.

Thanks for all the tips, I love them! Updating the second post now.

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Re: War in Eregion

Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:59 pm

Thanks for the praise :)
I think Celebrimbor's a great and unique character and you know if you lose a fight against him he's going to hurt you...which forces you to blow might on winning the fight which is what you were going for :).

I quite like the idea of the smiths being a more offensive unit although I feel they should retain a high defence to show they're some of the finest smiths in middle earth. S5 might be a bit much ( on par with half trolls seems excessive) However you could combine it with their weapons, say they were to wield two handed hammers, these would grant them plus one strength but not incur a combat penalty to represent their perfect balance, so a slightly toned down burly almost?? I'm not sure what you're planning for your conversion for Celebrimbor but a two handed hammer might be easier to do then a hammer and a shield?? This way you can get him up to s5 but keep him at def8?? Perhaps this to try and encourage smiths to be taken along Celebrimbor as well.....

'Smith of Eregion'
F5/3 S4(5) D7 A1 W1 C5 pts 16
Equipment
Finely crafted hammer (This hammer confers plus one strength to a model but incurs no penalty in combat)
Mithril armour

'some fancy name to represent how Celebrimbor makes them angry' When accompanying their liege lord, Celebrimbor the smiths of Eregion reach new levels of fury at foes who would dare despoil their work. Any 'smith of Eregion' within 3 inches of 'Celebrimbor' gains an extra attack.
I'm not sure they deserve two attacks however and would be tempted to drop the special rule and two points of their price, depends how skilled you imagined them to be at fighting. The main problem with it is they are quite over costed if you want to use them in a scenario not involving Celebrimbor. :/ Just an idea, could make a generic captain unit like a 'master smith' they gain their special rule when within 3 inches of him, this means they can be used without Celebrimbor??

'King's guard'
F6/3 S4 D8 A1 W1 C5 pts 17
Equipment
Spear
shield
Ancient armour
Body Guard
'Protect the king' A their name suggests 'King's guard' spend most of their time protecting their lord in battle and not trying to kill the enemy, to represent this at the start of the fight phase a 'King's guard may exchange his strength and attack value to represent his concentration on blocking his foe. (so 4 attacks but only wounding at strength 1) 'King's guard can't be supported if they do this.

Like this they can't really afford to be a one attack model with such a high price, however with 4 attacks they'll win nearly all of their fights with such a high fight value while also cutting through around an orc a turn..... I think this would be incentive enough to make them use their special rule??
I tried to make the smiths more offensive like you said and made the kings guard a more defensive type unit...thoughts??

I'm just stuck with the image of Celebrimbor and a bodyguard of smiths smashing though a sea of orcs trying to reach this banner your making :)

Billy
Sorry just realised you put in a version of the kings guard, It's nice but for 16 points I feel like they should have a greater offensive output, also 2 attacks when shielding isn't that impressive for the greatest warriors the elves should have.

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