War in Eregion

For all discussions on any new or revised rule mods for LOTR games.

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Re: War in Eregion

Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:37 pm

No problem

I see what you mean about the kings guard/CB banner issue, though it would be nice to have some sort of buff for them around the King. A special rule that i've made before for a specific group of warriors and their leader is to let them benefit from his heroic actions wherever they are on the table...

The smiths special rule was just something i thought of on a whim, and could be (yet another) a scenario specific rule, if they don't have CB to temper them or something?

No Melkor? Ahhh, c'mon... :cry: it would be easy, just give all his stats 11 :lol:

Tis true, it isn't that useful, maybe it could be made more specific. I shall mull over it for a bit, and probably come up with nothing :lol: . Thinking along those 'showing off' lines, what about Annatar issueing an order which is suicidal but the person commanded daren't refuse, so they become fearless? A bit silly but a bit of fun...

The reason i came up with the self renewing wound thing was because i had a picture of a troll from battle for middle earth picking up a nearby orc to eat to make himself heal faster! I think he needs 6 will as well, or 4 and a free one each turn. He is too selfish to use his own will as fate for someone else...

Profile looks good, nothing pops out that needs changing, yet. Though maybe i'd give him a higher strength.

Shadowshields just popped into my head, and they are kinda shielding the shadow as well. I see what you mean about the attacks etc., i'd buff them up like they were an ancient massive breed of orc/uruk that have also been enhanced by the dark lord. I'll let you ponder that one...

I'd love to help with painting colour schemes, and have loads of unpainted stuff so will be able to do almost anything (apart from the inevitable thing you are going to ask me which will be the one thing i won't have :lol: ) though i won't be able to paint for a few weeks now. I can also convert some stuff, though i won't be able to do any playtesting as i no longer have anyone to play with :(

An important thing to think about with spells is what sort of character the spellcaster is. Annatar is selfish, generally not very nice, treacherous, greedy et al et al. I'll brainstorm (or whatever it is called nowadays) and see if i can come up with some suitably nasty spells, and also a few for the goodies.

Hope i have been of some help

Edit, got a message before i could publish saying that this post contained too many smilies... I'm happy okay!
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Re: War in Eregion

Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:36 am

Right in terms of rules for Annatar I like the idea of a model that controls the battlefield by boosting its own side rather then being a combat powerhouse, however I feel like he should still be one of the most powerful models on the table so perhaps something like:
Annatar
F6/3 S5 D7 A2 W3 C7 M3 W6* F**
His strong stats make him competent in melee but two attacks limits his effectiveness....for spells what about:
Blinding light 2+ (In the scene in return of the king where they were originally going to make the troll sauron, he does something fairly similar to blinding light)
18" Immobilise 2+
18" Command 2+
18" Drain will 2+ maybe??
12" Inspire/intimidate 4+ (choose a friendly model within 12 inches, until the start of your next movement phase the model gains +2 to its F/S/D/A....It may also benifit from a free heroic action each phase of your choice however it may not affect any other frindly models with these heroic actions. In addition to this the model counts as being under the effects of fury but passes its save on a 4+. Due to the exertions of the models action when the spell stops he suffers D3 wounds which may be saved by fate as normal. If cast on saurons bodyguard the spell is cast on a 3+.)
Inner glory??6+ (Sauron reveals his inner beauty/horror paralysing nearby by enemies in terror. Any enemy model within 3 inches must pass a courage test with a -2 penalty or suffer the effects of a channeled transfix, this spell cannot be resisted.)
So the first new spell shows how he can intimidate orcs to do crazy things as they're that afraid of him whilst the second is a powerful AOE spell that isn't direct damage as I don't think that suits lotr or sauron that well.
For special rules:
Terror (Representing elves reluctance to charge something so beautiful)
Evil overlord (Friendly models within 6 inches treat Annatar as a banner)
Ancient evil (-1 courage in 18")

And they're my ideas for Annatar, haven't thought about how to price him but I feel he can help control the battlfield using his powers while still looking after himself in melee.
Billy

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Re: War in Eregion

Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:11 am

@Melkor hah! I didn't know there was a smiley limit :lol:

Conversion wise, the kings guard, smiths and annatars bodyguard would be the ones needing conversions. I'm not thinking of any particular models to start off with, in fact I was going to suggest that story-wise, the shadowshields are a mix of men, orcs & uruk at this time, who eventually breed & train into the Black Guard of Barad Dur. So anything from a wildman to a morannon, it doesn't matter as long as it looks different.

Your comments are very helpful, thank you! I especially appreciate this quote:
An important thing to think about with spells is what sort of character the spellcaster is. Annatar is selfish, generally not very nice, treacherous, greedy etc...

That is exactly who Tolkien creates him to be so I'd like to try and stick with that if possible. He only uses people to his own ends.

I have updated Annatar's profile in the profiles post on page 2

@billy Nice thoughts, we are on the same page and I had moved away from the black gate scene quite a bit, but the way your state it makes me want to use it again.

Something about it just doesn't sit right with me though. I don't want to make new spells etc where it fits but I think this calls for something different. In the film Aragorn slowly walks towards him, which I think is why I did end up giving him Compel in this profile. That's why I came up with Mourning to fill that role a bit more, so I wouldn't mind a combination of the two, but Mourning also prevents him getting shot dead, so he has to be hit with heroes to take him down. I think Fey Light is probably a decent name for the end product?

I just noticed that you have 18", I didn't realise the range was different for Sauron/Wraiths/Shamans. Interesting. He will definitely get 18" where possible.
I don't like having immobilise in there, he has to be different and that is a simple way of doing it. In his fair form I can't imagine him being as effective at spells which are based on fear, so that's why compel is at a 4+.

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Re: War in Eregion

Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:37 am

So one thing that hasn't been nutted down is might. He needs to have the 3 might, its standard. Might is super valuable now for channelling spells, so this is what I am trying to keep in mind. I wouldn't want him to have 3 might left over when armies are breaking.

Initially I put fury in to help with this, as well as it being pretty common for evil. I think it's fine to have, I would imagine a lot of people would choose to channel fury right from the start, leaving Annatar with 2 might. He should have 1 spare for heroic actions as a general rule, so we would be looking for another spell or choice between 2 spells to spend that might point on. Channelled chill soul is very potent, I'd like to have something similar in there, but it doesn't fit character wise, so still searching for that AoE spell, perhaps fury will have to do.

I like Enrage, I've been thinking about that all week and trying to modify it a bit to be more thematic. I like calling it Call to Glory, like its encouraging his minions to gory and glorious acts of heroism. I'm still stuck about making it a spell or special rule. I think it being a special rule where you can elect to give up 1 point of might or will can work, though a bit clumsy, and still leaves you free to cast magic.
I think bladewrath fits better as a spell and keeping in mind that we want him to be boosting his sides combat potential.

So more about call to glory: A model, who has less either FV, Strength or Attacks than an opponent he is in base to base combat with, is eligible for the call to glory. Annatar casts on him or elects him or something, and he gets a buff for that fight, particularly if he kills the enemy. Initially I was just thinking a heroic combat is given for free, and only affects that model as you stated, but it seems like a bit too much of a gamble even for a S4 Uruk to beat and wound an elf, though perhaps its not too farfetched.
I was also thinking of doubling that models strength and attacks for that turn as the spell or reward. Or maybe just +1 Str and +1A, so captains wouldnt be op, but still a very hefty S5 and 3A. A regular bodyguard would be S4/5 and 2A, so it would serve to make the troops that bit better. Maybe it should only work on bodyguard or maybe it should just be a high casting spell (5+).

I get what you are saying about Terror, but to me its the same category as Immobilise. Its not exactly terror but might have a similar result so combining the desire to give him Terror and Immobilise = Mourning, to re-roll all hits with ranged weapons, maybe giving annatar the option to force the enemy to re-roll 1 dice in combat.

Ancient Evil i steered away from, I didn't want it to just be the usual Terror based model, or I would give him Aura of Dismay, which would greatly benefit his bodyguard. That and the -2 courage banner in the scenario, I don't know if its a bit too much to have elves courage checking below humans.

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Re: War in Eregion

Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:52 am

So, the One Ring, how about it gives Annatar back Might or Will for each wound caused... then he would need more direct wounding spells I feel. Sorc. blast maybe? Argh. Maybe he gets it back if a model targeted by his spells is killed, even if a normal warrior kills them..?

BTW Wither, I like very much, such a simple spell, easy to cast, long term consequences but also seems insignificant. Potent. Sap Will is too OP IMO, it would destroy and of the elves he faces in the campaign, so I would prefer to steer clear of that one and let Annatar earn his bread - low casting values is more than sufficient.

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Re: War in Eregion

Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:28 am

Edit: They say there is a great wall up there, to protect the North from the wild. It is 700 feet high, and made of solid writing...

It's okay, I am not as happy now so I may be able to control my smiley :D :lol: :) ;) 8-) outburst... drat.

I would love to do some conversion stuff (if I find some time) so I'll see what I can come up with, PM anything you specifically have in mind. I like the idea about hi guard, I hadn't thought of them being a mix of races that he's hand picked...

I am glad i can be of help, especially as it is fun to do! (No smiley here... There's a limit...)

I'd still be tempted to give him strength 5, just to set him apart from his warriors, as he is a very powerful being who has been "recharging" for last few decades...

The problem with giving him too high a magic range is risking him being used behind the lines out of danger sniping off heroes etc.. Just a thought, though I agree that he should have a longer than average range.

I like your ideas Billy, I just think he wouldn't really bother using his magic to help his unimportant minions. I like those spells you made up, very thematic, but I think his inner glory could be represented by a special rule rather than a spell (cool idea though).


I think he needs 3 might, though i wouldn't give him Fury (oops, there goes the spanner into the works...). Although it does fit in, i like to Let shamans do that sort of stuff - lesser forms of magic that annatar wouldn't waste his time on. I also like the idea of some of annatar's mentees running around theoughout the hordes of orcs and warriors, buffing them up whilst big daddy is preparing himself for engaging the heroes of the opposition. Another thought. He can use his might to channel other spells or for heroic actions etc. (especially if you give him a buffed heroic strike type thing, which will also draw him into combat.).

I think an 'enrage' special rule would be cool, maybe a once per game thing, when he just points out his champion and orders him to bring him heads (just how i envisage it).

What about him gaining terror once his true intent is revealed and he kills an enemy hero???

I shall discuss immobilise/mourning further down (i fink i hav a cunnin plan...)

The one ring. Its principle purpose is that it contains a part of his power. Therefore, each turn he should receive a free point of will which can only be used on magic. However, when resisting magic, it can be used as a point of might. ? I was thinking of giving him a sorcerous blast esque spell anyways.

Or how about this: Dark grasp 10" - Annatar uses his magic to reach out, creating a dark hand of pure malice, throwing people about to cause chaos. Any model may be targeted by this spell (friend and foe) within 10". They suffer the same effects as if they have just been 'Hurled', but may be sent in any direction regardless of where Annatar is. A definite maybe?

A probs not so cunnin plan - a special rule - Beguile (lovely word, especially in this context) . At the beginning of a combat that Annatar is in, he may choose to beguile the enemy. Using all his power, Annatar forces his vista to be even more beautiful. No one can withstand that flattering (and slightly cheesey) smile... If annatar wins the fight, he may not make any strikes, however, if the enemy win the fight, they must reroll successful hits to wound (or something similar.). An interesting thought i just came up with, which could be tweaked as well a fair bit.

Special rule (could be made into a spell): Corrupt Soul - instead of making a normal wound on an enemy after winning combat, Annatar may make a single corrupt soul attack on one person. For the next game turn this model is under the control of the evil player and may be used to any extent including going into combat (but not anything directly harming like jumping off a cliff or strolling off the board).

Spell Summon Spirits 3+ - the grounds split and the dead rise to fight again! The highest number rolled on the casting dice is how many 'spirits of angmar' (could make up a cool profile here). Channelling adds D3 spirits.

These are my suggestions, use some, chuck some, modify some. Do as you will, for some of these are better than others.

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Re: War in Eregion

Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:59 pm

Hmmm what about
Annatar
f6/3 S5 D7 A2 W3 C7 M3 W6* F3
( I still think he should be strength 5 and defence 7 otherwise he's as deadly as an orc captain aside from fight, even if he does focus on spell casting he should be more competent then a mere orc!! :P )
Beguile:
At the start of the fight phase Annatar may choose to Beguile all opponents in his combat, Annatar may force his opponent to re roll any dice to win the fight and any dice rolls to wound however he may not strike any blows to win combat himself and may not 'beguile opponents if their are other friendly models in his fight. (If he gets in a sticky situation he can go all Mr nice guy on them)
Inner Evil:
Once per game Annatar may reveal his true intentions to the enemy, every enemy model withing 6 inches counts as having the channelled version of transfix cast on them on a dice roll of a 4+, once Annatar has done this he may no longer make use of his 'beguile ability'. (Represents the moment when everyone realises he isn't Mr nice guy)
Commanding presence:
Friendly models within 3" Annatar treat him as a banner.
Self serving:
Once a turn Annatar may kill D3 friendly models within 6 inches, this may either let him use a free point of might, will or regain a wound.
Magical Abilities:
Decieve 3+: Any enemy models wishing to shoot at Annatar must re-roll successful to hit rolls and any enemy models in combat with Annatar may be forced to re roll the dice.
Wither 6" 3+: The target enemy model permanently loses a point of strength.
Command 12" 4+
Call to glory 12" 4+: Sensing a danger to himself Annatar calls upon his minions to fight all the harder to vanquish the foe.....(choose a friendly model within 12 inches, until the start of your next movement phase the model gains +2 to its F/S/D/A....It may also benifit from a free heroic action each phase of your choice however it may not affect any other friendly models with these heroic actions. In addition to this the model counts as being under the effects of fury but passes its save on a 4+. Due to the exertions of the models actions when the spell stops he is removed from play) ....The plus 2 to everything allows him to make a difference but if cast on a captain then you're killing off 50 odd points, but it might allow you to take down a weakened elf hero who might still pose a threat to Annatar, kinda shows of his selfish side.
Corrupt 6" 5+ Choose an enemy model, until your next movement phase that model counts as being under your control however he may not be harmed by enemy models (so his original side) or voluntarily harm himself (No jumping of cliffs)

So a couple of rules to show how he can still trick people into thinking he's a nice guy and a couple of rules to show how he is more interested in himself then his side as a whole.
Take what you will from that just throwing some more ideas at you :D

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Re: War in Eregion

Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:31 am

Hey guys, thanks as always.

Just a quick update as I'm on the run.
I think we are almost there, I'm pretty happy with the current profile (updated on page 2) and the propositions below.

Added the One Ring with different effect.
Increased Banner from 3" to 6"
Increased most spells from 6" to 12". Unsure whether to make it 18" as the Necromancer only has 12"
Spells are Bladewrath, Command, Wither (with Channeled version) and Terrifying Aura (with Channeled version).
Dropped Fury.
Considering adding in Curse if he feels too light on spells.
Channeled Wither might be too OP and ruin the game if cast on a hero (why wouldn't it be, making them S2 basically removes them as a threat.

Will add:
(Forgot the name!): Any time Annatar is wounded (after fate rolls), any evil model must take a courage test and is removed if the test fails. Bodyguard is still an automatic pass.
Annatar may lead a warband of 24 warriors.

I was thinking of adding a fate roll to the one ring, similar to Thror, and remove the fate from 3 to 0.
Call to Glory can be a Special Rule, one model per turn, for free OR require a point of will or might to use. Still unsure on the details, it's not essential but will definitely add some flavour to the profile.
Strength and Defence etc I think should stay the same - he is right in the middle of the 2 other profiles. Also his FV is better than any Uruk Hero, which is what weapon skill is determined by, not strength, so that is why I am thinking it is ok for now.

Pricing is based on Gandalf the Grey, add a banner, add the one ring = 270. Minus the courage test rule, id probably set him down to 250pts. Adding Call to Glory would require an increase in cost, everything else is a trade out mostly, so could leave it at 250.

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Re: War in Eregion

Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:38 am

@Melkor There is indeed a great wall to the north! That made me laugh :lol:

I have gone over a few things since my last post, added in call to glory, making it a +1 to all stats for 1 turn and -1 the next turn if they don't kill all enemies in their fight (their is a price for failure!). This means it can be used on Heroes who will become regular warriors for 1 turn if they stuff it up (you never know when those 1's are coming), and Warriors can make a big impact on the game for a turn... otherwise they die from a subtle knife in the back as someone else gets in line (1-1=0 Wounds) :D
Added the Thror "buff" to the One Ring to better align it with Sauron's ring. This is the only thing I think might be a bit much. It will definitely require some playtesting and your thoughts.

He only has 4 spells, but he has a bunch of other abilities. Still a little worried about Channeled Wither, but otherwise their is a good balance their I think.

Need your advice on casting values!

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Re: War in Eregion

Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:50 am

orcHi

A realy nice project you have there. I´ts a great idea to arrange the second age war of the elves with sauron. I like your Celebrimbor profile, although I think he should have a higher fighting value (don´t forget, he´s the grandson of Feanor!)

Do you already have an idea how thfigures would look like?
I just converted a Celbibrfgur

ImageImageImageImage

You can use the pictures if you want.

Greez Erestor
Excuse my bad english. I'm just a swiss guy.

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