The TLA Tournament FAQ

All questions or things you think are wrong about the new book to be posted here. Will collate into a long list and get it sent off after a while!

Moderators: Rangers, Leaders

User avatar
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1040
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:15 am

The TLA Tournament FAQ

Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:19 am

Please use this thread to discuss the TLA FAQ, ask for clarification or suggest additional questions.

The Last Alliance Unofficial LOTR Tournament FAQ is as an unofficial collection of answers to questions that frequently come up at events, designed to give tournament organisers a simple, unbiased way to have them answered consistently. This living-document is a fan made list of answers, and its use at an event is entirely optional and up to the Tournament Organisers. This document will be changed and updated as Gamesworkshop release new FAQs, and should never be seen to overrule any official FAQ ruling.

Current Version: 1.01.
The latest version of this file can be found here:
download/tlafaq.pdf



SPECIAL STRIKES AND WEAPONS
Q. Can models with hand weapons be converted to carry any hand weapon?
A. To use a special strike, the model must be armed with the appropriate weapon (see page 67). There are no restrictions on hand-weapon conversions.

Q. Can chariots use brutal power attacks? / Can chariots use Barge? Hurl? Rend?
A. Yes. Chariots count as Monstrous Mounts (Fallen Realms page 43).

Q. Can monsters use special strikes?
A. Yes, there is nothing in the rules to deny it. They may opt to resolve Strikes the usual way (which includes special strikes), or use a Brutal Power Attack (page 63), but not both.

Q. How does the roll-off bonus work for a Chieftain's axes who also counts as Elven Blades?
A. Treat this situation as 1-4 Evil (you) wins, 5-6 Good (opponent) wins. If facing another Elven Blade user, the roll-off is normal one.

Q. What about the special rule of Erestor, where he gets a +1 when fighting with his throwing knives in combat. But the new rules prevent him to do so.
A. Erestor re-rolls any failed to-wound rolls when throwing these daggers or using them in combat (Free People page 18). You cannot reroll a reroll, so Feinting in combat will have no effect other than to lower his fight value by D3.

Q. Monsters like Mordor Trolls can use Special Strikes. Can I give an axe to a Mordor Troll to try gain additional Strength on my attack with a Piercing Strike, and then throw more powerful enemies like the Balrog through the enemy's lines?
A. The rules say that you make the Brutal Power Attack instead of striking (page 63). You can give the Axe to your Troll, but that won’t increase his strength when throwing an opponent, it will only increase his strength by D3 when striking with a normal attack.

Q. Previously, most war gear wasn't mentioned in a unit’s profile. It was assumed that the model would have some kind of weapon on them. Is this still in effect? Are units like the goblin king stuck using his 2h weapon? or can he fight with a normal weapon as well?
A. You may choose to use a hand weapon unless the model’s profile states ‘Unarmed’

Q. Can wargs, spiders, dragons, bats and all other animals carry axes?
A. Beasts have natural weapons that are treated as hand weapons, they don't carry hand weapons. [2]

Q. Can weapons with special rules also make special strikes as long as the description specifically says what sort of weapon they are?
A. Yes. For example, Durin's Axe is an Axe, Aeglos is a Spear and so on. There are also weapons in the game that are not specified in the model's profile, but their types are widely known from the books and films; for example Sting, Narsil, Andruil and Morgul Blades all count as Swords/Daggers and can Feint. If a weapon's type is not clear, err on the side of not using special strikes.

MONSTERS
Q. Are cavalry hit by a hurled model knocked down?
A. Yes [1]

Q. Using the hurl brutal power attack: where do you determine the direction of the throw? And does the hurled model knock down all models in the fights it passes through?
A. Hurl is measured from the base of the throwing monster, not the thrown model. [1] Only the models passed through by the Hurling model are knocked over (so if you hit a model in combat on that model is knocked over rather than the whole combat). [1]

Q. If you read the Sorcerous Blast spell, it specifies that if you hit a model in combat then every model in that fight is also knocked down. The Hurl rules however say no such thing, merely "all models passed through" get hit. Is it meant that way or is just an oversight?
A. Only the models passed through by the Hurling model are knocked over (so if you hit a model in combat on that model is knocked over rather than the whole combat). [1]

Q. Is the Gaping Maw special attack from the Cave Drake also a Brutal Attack? Or can he combine the two and use it against the S of the opponent?
A. It is not a brutal power attack. You may use one OR the other.

SPEARS AND SUPPORTING
Q. Can spear/pike support still be shot at? There is some confusion due to the new wording and rules about whether they are "in the fight" or not.
A. Yes. Spears are participating in the fight, but they are not engaged.

Q. Spear support question - now it says that spear support "join the combat" does that mean they no longer have a control zone and cannot wander off to support somewhere else and cannot be shot?
A. Models supporting with spears do not count as part of combat, can move freely and have normal control zones.

Q. Can you carry a pike and a crossbow?
A. There is no restriction on what other weapons a model with a pike can be armed with apart from that they are not allowed Shields (Page 69).

Q. If a spear warrior is in range of a banner but the model he's supporting is not, can I reroll the spear supporter’s die, as he is joining the fight per the rulebook?
A. Yes

Q. Can an evil model supporting a model in a fight be shot at by friendly models?
A. No. The Shooting rules (page 31) only allow models to shoot at enemy models, and even evil archers cannot choose an evil model as a target. However, evil models supporting a fight can be shot through by friendly models if there is an enemy target on the far side of them.

Q. As the spear model is joining the fight, would he mess up heroic combats against models he's supporting?
A. No, supporting model is not part of the combat. Combat can only be played 1 vs X and the supporter would make this a 2 vs X, hence supporter clearly does not count as part of the combat for any purpose other than providing Fight Value and strikes.

Q. Can pikes support spears supporting somebody else?
A. No. A pike can support a friend in close combat by being in base contact with another pike that is already doing so; neither can be a spear. (page 69)

Q. If a goblin with axe supports (using the ‘chittering hordes’ rule) another goblin, can the goblin that is supporting use his axe to make a Piercing Strike?
A. No. The Chittering Hordes rules state “Models with this rule can Support as if they had spears”. Spears cannot be used to make special strikes.

THE GOBLIN SCRIBE

Q. Scribe - during a reconnoitre mission can the scribe still choose any board edge to bring on the reinforcements? Because if this is the case then every reinforcement model can just enter and leave from the opposite board edge and count as a VP.
A: For the purpose of the Reconnoitre scenario, the Scribe's summoned Goblins can only enter the board from their controlling player’s board edge. [1]

Q. How does the Scribe "move on" in scenarios such as Reconnoitre scenario, seeing as it is immobile?
A. The Goblin Scribe can be moved up to 5” on to the board on the turn he arrives. From that point on the Goblin Scribe is a Heavy Object (see the rules for moving Heavy Objects, Page 86).

Q. When shooting at the Goblin Scribe, do you measure to the base of the crane or to the Scribe himself, as he has no regular gaming base?
A. Any part of the model

Q. If you can only see the crane, but not the actual scribe, can you shoot at the scribe? Is the crane a 'piece of scenery' on the scribes 'base', or is it part of the model?
A. In the same way as models cannot gain cover from scenic elements on their bases, you can shoot, cast magic at or charge the Goblin Scribe as long as you see any part of the model.

Q. If the goblin scribe is under the effect of fury, how do you determine how much he passed the test by?
A. For the purpose of bringing reinforcements, play as if Fury wasn’t present. For the purpose of any other courage tests this counts simply as a pass.

OTHER RULES

Q. The channelled version of “Your Staff is Broken” causes a S7 hit, but it is not specified that it has to be cast on a model with a Staff. Can this be cast on any model?
A. You may only cast Your Staff is Broken against a model carrying a Staff of Power.

Q. Do Ponies give a charge bonus (eg extra attack, knock down)?
A. Yes, there is nothing in the rules to deny ponies the same charge bonuses as any other cavalry model.

Q. In the Cavalry section it gives the profile of a Hunter Orc: 4 3 4 1 1 3
But at the back of the book it says: 3 4 4 1 1 3, just like on the GW site.
A. Hunter Orcs should have a Fight Value of 3, as per the back of the book and the Gamesworkshop website.[3]

Q. What happens when Gollum is the Ringbearer? Specifically, does Gollum count as being on the Good side whilst wearing the Ring? Does the Evil player still only move Gollum on a 1 or 2? Can the Evil player fight with Gollum while he is wearing the Ring?
A. Treat the “good” as “opponent” for the purpose of ‘Sauron’s Will’. Gollum is moved by the model’s owner on 3+ and by the owner’s opponent on 1-2. Ringwraiths can fight Gollum wearing the Ring as if he was a good model.

Q. Can Gothmog's Master of Battle rule be used after Gothmog has already performed a Heroic Action in that same phase?
A. No, a model may only benefit from a single Heroic action per Phase (page 57).

Q. Can Gothmog use Master of Battle to make use of Grinnah's "Swap With Me" Heroic Action? If so, who can Gothmog switch with?
A. No. Grinnah's "Swap With Me" rule says he may swap with any friendly Goblin. Gothmog’s “Master of Battle” rule allows him to mimic the Heroic actions, but he does not have the special rule to call “Swap With Me”.

Q. When horses are knocked prone are the riders thrown?
A. Roll on the thrown rider chart. If a 1 is rolled make the S3 strike as normal. Regardless of the result the rider is knocked prone.

Q. If a model is under the effect of a bats "blinding swarm" rule and the model also feints, is its fight value reduced by 1/2 or 1/4?
A. The fight value is halved first and then reduced by D3

Q. What happens if a hero in combat with a Bat Swarm calls a heroic strike?
A. Use the same order of events as similar effects like Transfix/Immobilise as per the rule book: "Note that this bonus (+D6 Fight) is applied before other effects are taken into account. Thus, a Hero who has been successfully targeted by the Transfix Channelled power would still have Fight value of 1."


Q. Can Dalamyr use his Might point to make his Smoke bomb-Transfix a channelled one?
A. No. Dalamyr's smoke bombs are throwing weapons with Strength 1 and an effect similar to Transfix (Fallen Realms page 30), but are not a Magic Power. Dalamyr does not have access to Magic Powers as described on page 76 and cannot perform a casting test or heroic channelling.

Q. If I take multiple Task Masters, can I keep rolling to see if I can get free heroic actions if one of my heroes is within 6" of several of them?
A. No. For the “Orc Taskmaster: Whip of the Masters” rules, interpret the word 'him' as 'a Taskmaster', eg
Each time the Taskmaster, or an Evil Hero within 6"/14cm of a Taskmaster, attempts a heroic action. Roll a D6. On the score of 4+, there is no need to expend a point of Might - the heroic action is free.

Q. Do Riders of Rohan count as warriors for the purposes of determining the bow limit of non-RoR warriors in the contingent, or are they like heroes and not factored at all?
A. Riders of Rohan in warbands chosen from the Rohan army list do not count towards your force's Bow Limit (Kingdoms of Men FAQ); therefore in a similar way to bow-armed heroes they do not use up your bow allowance or increase the amount of bows the rest of your force can bring.

SCENARIO SPECIFIC FAQs

All scenarios:
Many players use scenic objective markers, which may vary in size and have irregular shapes. For scenarios that require models to be in range of objective markers to score, measure from the edge of the objective markers rather than the centre unless the players agree otherwise before the game.
Treat all objectives as open terrain that do not block line of sight regardless of how they are modelled, unless the players agree otherwise before the game.

If the hero leading a warband has Might, he may use it to influence his warband’s deployment roll.

Lords of Battle
Q. Every time an enemy model suffers a Wound or expends a Fate point, you score 1 Victory Point. Do you also score points for enemy models that flee the battlefield?
A. Yes, if an enemy model is removed from play for any reason, you score 1 Victory point per Wound, and if they had unspent Fate Points you score 1 Victory point per Fate Point.

Q. Do you score 1 Victory Point when a model uses a special save that has a similar effect to a Fate roll?
A. No; you only score points for Wounds and Fate points used. You don’t score points when an enemy model uses other means to avoid wounds, such as The Undying using Will, Goblins using Fury, Malbeth the Seer’s ‘Gift of Foresight’ etc.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Based on clarifications given to players at Gamesworkshop’s Throne of Skulls 2013 tournament
2. Clarifications or changes based on common sense application of rules.
3. Confirmed on http://www.games-workshop.com
If you'd like to contribute or have any outstanding items you'd like queried or think aren't sufficiently covered, please go here to add them.
viewforum.php?f=36

User avatar
Squire
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:27 am

Re: The TLA Tournament FAQ

Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:00 am

This is too good! It must have been a lot of work, Tx
I would rather share one lifetime with you than face all the ages of this world alone.

User avatar
Warrior
 
Posts: 532
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:30 am
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: The TLA Tournament FAQ

Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:48 am

Great to see a definitive list, the vast majority of which I agree with. Although, not sure how this one was arrived at:

Q. What happens if a hero in combat with a Bat Swarm calls a heroic strike?
A. The Fight Value is halved first, and the effect of Heroic Strike applied afterwards in the same way as in the case of Transfix. If the Hero also uses a special strike, apply the strike after all other rules.
For clarity, the order to apply the effects is as follows:
1. Blinding Swarm/Transfix/Immobilise/Compel/Command/Etc affects the model
2. Heroic Strike
3. Special Strike

When the rulebook says on page 59 under Heroic Strike: "Note that this bonus (+D6 Fight) is applied before other effects are taken into account. Thus, a Hero who has been successfully targeted by the Transfix Channelled power would still have Fight value of 1."

I'd also question why the Hunter Orc profile was decided upon, my group was pretty comfortable considering the cavalry section profile to be the one in error.
War is not about who's right, but who's left.

User avatar
Ranger
 
Posts: 2062
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:22 pm

Re: The TLA Tournament FAQ

Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:22 am

Just to explain, the answers were put together by Matt, Hixont and myself.

If you see proof for other answers please post. Already the Heroic Strike thing looks incorrect (my fault), so we'll change it. As for the book vs back of the book... because the main section contains full rules and I think it's more likely this sectio is correct.
BlackMist - 2 times UK LotR Champion.
Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League.
Click to view the rankings
Join the Facebook group to stay up to date with the latest Tournaments

User avatar
Warrior
 
Posts: 532
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:30 am
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: The TLA Tournament FAQ

Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:05 pm

BlackMist wrote:As for the book vs back of the book... because the main section contains full rules and I think it's more likely this sectio is correct.


I suppose this is a reasonable explanation. Our logic was that the website, the summary at the back and the actual profile all present them as F3 S4, while in the cavalry section they are F4 S3 only to demonstrate a facet of cavalry rules. So we took the 3 to 1 majority on it I guess.
War is not about who's right, but who's left.

User avatar
Warrior
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:39 pm

Re: The TLA Tournament FAQ

Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:50 pm

Q. When horses are knocked prone are the riders thrown?
A. Roll on the thrown rider chart. If a 1 is rolled make the S3 strike as normal. Regardless of the result the rider is knocked prone.


Is this part correct? If you are hit by a thrown dude you are knocked prone. If you are mounted and are hit by a thrown dude you are automatically dismounted, and take a thwon rider test. What happens if you roll a 6? Do you get to stand up?


I guess my question is: if you roll a six on the thrown rider chart after being hit by a monster-thrown guy, do you stand up, or are you knocked prone? Which rule takes precedent?

Q. Every time an enemy model suffers a Wound or expends a Fate point, you score 1 Victory Point. Do you also score points for enemy models that flee the battlefield?
A. Yes, if an enemy model is removed from play for any reason, you score 1 Victory point per Wound, and if they had unspent Fate Points you score 1 Victory point per Fate Point.


I would also be interested to hear the reasoning for this. In my mind fleeing is not 'suffering a wound', and having fate left when you flee is not 'expending a fate point'. Explanation please?


Other than those two, and the hunter orc profile which will need to be FAQ'ed by GW, great job guys. Thanks for taking the time to do this. :D

User avatar
Standard Bearer
 
Posts: 2292
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:56 pm

Re: The TLA Tournament FAQ

Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:39 pm

theavenger001 wrote:
Q. When horses are knocked prone are the riders thrown?
A. Roll on the thrown rider chart. If a 1 is rolled make the S3 strike as normal. Regardless of the result the rider is knocked prone.


Is this part correct? If you are hit by a thrown dude you are knocked prone. If you are mounted and are hit by a thrown dude you are automatically dismounted, and take a thwon rider test. What happens if you roll a 6? Do you get to stand up?


I guess my question is: if you roll a six on the thrown rider chart after being hit by a monster-thrown guy, do you stand up, or are you knocked prone? Which rule takes precedent?


My thoughts are as follows:
The cavalry model is treated as a single model while the rider is still mounted. The cavalry model is knocked prone by the thrown model and then seperated. You are only rolling to see if the rider is injured since the entire model is already prone.

theavenger001 wrote:
Q. Every time an enemy model suffers a Wound or expends a Fate point, you score 1 Victory Point. Do you also score points for enemy models that flee the battlefield?
A. Yes, if an enemy model is removed from play for any reason, you score 1 Victory point per Wound, and if they had unspent Fate Points you score 1 Victory point per Fate Point.


I would also be interested to hear the reasoning for this. In my mind fleeing is not 'suffering a wound', and having fate left when you flee is not 'expending a fate point'. Explanation please?

By the book a model is considered a casaulty when removed from play by a failed courage test once a force is broken. The real question is whether or not you think it's fair for a low model count player to let his force flee off the table and win the game because he caused more wounds than you did.

For example my spider force (24 models @ 1000 points) is capable of generating a lot of wounds in a very short amount of time. Once I have a comfortable lead I throw away a bunch of spiderlings (nine models in my case) and of course I will have lost some spiders due to normal wear and tear (Three is all I need to lose). So my force of 24 has now lost 12 models and is considered broken and all I've given away is 15 wounds (in this perfect world example) and I can pretty much guarantee that I've done a whole lot more damage than that with just the three Spider Queens. Now I run away and let my force disintegrate from failed courage tests. There is no way you can win assuming that any other wounds inflicted on my normal spiders have been offset by wounds they've inflicted on your force.

I cannot tell you the intent of the scenario victory conditions, but I do agree that the wording of the victory conditions states that the wounds must be inflicted. I know that players I have played against have opted to let a hero die rather than expend a Fate point when it was obvious that the hero was going to die anyway (taking three wounds in one fight for instance) in order to reduce the Victory points awarded. So by strick interpretation of the wording in the scenario and my experiences as a player I agree with you.

Like all things done by committee you will get a minority opinion. Now you have mine.

User avatar
Warrior
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:39 pm

Re: The TLA Tournament FAQ

Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:29 pm

On the first one I agree with you, the (now un-mounted) model should not get a chance to stand up.

And the on the second one I can see why you came to the conclusion you did; if people are going to purposely try to disintegrate their force once they're broken, just for victory points purpose, something's wrong. You should fight to the bitter end!

I had not thought of sneaky tactics like that, so your interpretation makes sense. Though without those types of tactics I would prefer it to be purely models killed directly by your opponents models, not just from them breaking you and lucking out when you fail courage tests...But I guess that's a why you have thematic games and scenarios with players who are not powergaming for the win. :D

Warrior
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 2:57 pm
Location: Kirkby In Ashfield

Re: The TLA Tournament FAQ

Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:15 pm

The "any way they are removed they count" rule is very important.
Otherwise people can use 100% of the will on their wraiths to deny VPs or not use will to pass standfast tests.

User avatar
Standard Bearer
 
Posts: 2292
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:56 pm

Re: The TLA Tournament FAQ

Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:44 pm

My favorite "end the scenario quickly so I win Reconoitre" is to test for the Warriors first (once I'm broken) and let them flee. That way I don't have any Stand Fast! issues once my heroes check Courage.

With the rule changes to Fury I can now use Fury to my advantage and then expend all my remaining Will to turn it off and away go the goblins and orcs like fine sand in a strong wind. It used to be that I had to separate my Shaman from the herd after I was broken or get them into combat so they'd lose a combat.

"Power gaming" tactics like this will not go away, but they can be managed.

Next
Return to FAQ for the 2012 SBG Books

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests