Captain of the Dead - Playtest

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Captain of the Dead - Playtest

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:37 pm

Captain of the Dead (Spirit)
Points Value: 75

Move 6
F 4/4+
S 4
D 7
A 2
W 2
C 6
M 1
W 2
F 1

Wargear
Heavy Armour, Hand Weapon

Special Rules
Terror
Blade of the Dead
The Dead and the Living – Only the Army of the Dead can use the Captain’s Stand Fast

Options
• Shield …………………………………………….………………. 5pts
• Horse …………………………………………….…………….. 10pts



======PLAYTESTING======
Edit 12th Nov 15: Price changed from 70 to 75pts.
Edit 20th Nov following feedback: Might reduced to 1.

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Re: Captain of the Dead - Playtest

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:41 pm

About this profile:
This is a proposed idea for a Captain of the Dead.

Currently the Army of the Dead have just one hero, making fielding a pure AOD impossible except at very low points sizes.

The Captain shown here is essentially a blend of a captain of Dol Amroth and the King of the Dead. It has a much less specialised profile due to the lack of Drain Soul (instant death) and instead is a versatile model that can be used on foot with Warriors of the Dead or mounted on a horse to go with Riders.

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Re: Captain of the Dead - Playtest

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:48 am

Based on a Captain of Dol Amroth profile should it be 80 points? Since it has 2+ courage, 1+ will and 2 5point special rules.

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Re: Captain of the Dead - Playtest

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:56 am

The Dol Amroth captain starts at 55pts (including shield), so what i was actually comparing was very similar to your synposis, but with the DA also possessing one special rule (Dol Amroth for Gondor).
The difference is then +2 Courage, +1 Will and +1 Special Rule rather than 2.

That's great feedback though, thanks, and it indicates that while 80 might be too much, changing it from 70 to 75 would probably be justified.
Thanks.

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Re: Captain of the Dead - Playtest

Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:29 pm

Does it not go against the trend for spirits for the captain to have might. Normally they have no might but higher will and fate values, perhaps a 0/2/2 profile to make it match his king?

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Re: Captain of the Dead - Playtest

Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:14 am

The unstoppable Sneeze wrote:Does it not go against the trend for spirits for the captain to have might. Normally they have no might but higher will and fate values, perhaps a 0/2/2 profile to make it match his king?


He could, but it's not a universal thing since there are quite a number of Spirits with Might; The necromancer, all but one nazgul, sauron, etc.
This profile is intended to be more versatile than the King of the Dead, who feels like he's almost a specialised Mumak killer.

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Re: Captain of the Dead - Playtest

Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:02 pm

Sneeze is right their is a reason why Might was never given to the King of the dead or any Ghost with Blades of the Dead.

Blades of the Dead is stupidly powerful.

The Ability to strike courage is a vastly underrated ability and when a 2 attack hero can dish is out their power skyrockets. So I agree with funneling the Might into the other stats of Will and Fate.

I've played Army of the Dead a fair and my issue with might on the captains is the fact that if they can boost their dice rolls to wound it makes it so incredibly easy to wound thing Imagine your fight an enemy ring wraith 1 on 1. and by some miracle you have managed to trap said ringwraith so you get to double your strikes.
You would get 4 dice to roll to wound against said ring wraiths requiring 5's to wound with the ability to boost that to a 3 to a 5. That's crazy good.
The issues with might on the captain is that the really really hard stuff to wound suddenly becomes to easy to wound because of blades of the dead. That jump from strength 3 to 4 is what makes it.

I honestly think move the Might into the will and Fate and make the ghostly captain 0/3/2. It makes him on the same par as the the rest of the dead and if you desperately need the might for the army you can bring in the Grey company for the might powered rangers. And that's it. If you want might for army of the dead its so SO easy to obtain it using allies.

~Kylie

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Re: Captain of the Dead - Playtest

Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:45 am

For me, I would prefer a captain with might. It doesn't have DRAIN SOUL which is probably the reason the King doesn't get Might. Blades of the dead isn't that special any more, all the monsters are much better at avoiding defence stats with their REND.
LOTR: 3000pts ANGMAR, 1200 MINAS TIRITH, 2000 DWARFS, 12000 ELVES. I HAVE A PROBLEM... not enough models. :mrgreen:

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Re: Captain of the Dead - Playtest

Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:36 am

I agree that the captain should have might. It is not at all fair to have an entire army penalised to the point where they cannot challenge heroics. Especially critical ones like Heroic move and Heroic March which are game winners in some scenarios.

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Re: Captain of the Dead - Playtest

Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:52 am

I tend to agree. LK made a good point about the potency of Might when added to blades of the dead attacks, but it's not that unique to have an attack that bypasses armour (see heroic monsters for example) or have an attack that is likely to cause damage (see heroes with 2 handed weapons, burly, lances etc).

If the reason that Captains/Lords of the Dead have been requested is because people want to be able to field a full, pure Army of the Dead then yes it is likely they would need to have some Might available.

Here is a spreadsheet showing the dice roll needed to cause a wound against a 7 different common warrior profiles.

For example, and Captain of Minas Tirith needs a 4+ to wound a ranger, 5+ to wound a D5 Warrior of Minas Tirith (TRAITOR!), 5+ to wound a D6 Morranon Orc, etc.

Image

The row at the bottom shows a Captain of the Dead using the proposed profile. It uses Blades of the Dead, and hits against courage.
What this shows is that the CotD would be average (yellow) against 3 target classes, good (green) against 2 and bad (red) against two others.

If all games were good vs evil, the BotD rule would be more valuable - it has a few stand out places where it is excellent, like against Morrannon Orcs or Half Trolls. However, since games at tournaments are allowed to be blue vs blue, it's generally not better than having the Burly special rule on average, and in some cases it is an impediment (the rule is not optional, so it can't be turned off vs wood elves).
Blades of the dead is nowhere near as good as 'Rend' -neither of the monster heroes shown here needed more than 3+ to wound any target- and there is a list of monsters who have Might on their profiles.

In conclusion
Having Might attached to a Captain of the Dead profile would facilitate viable AOD armies, and wouldn't break the game.

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