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Re: Queen Beruthiel - Playtest

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:22 am
by Lady Kindle
We are getting close to a complete profile.

There are still a few things that still concern me however.

The primary thing is the Queens cats.

The primary gameplay mechanic of the queen is her ability to be able to cast and draw line of sight from her cats.
The problem here is that with a defence and wounds of 2 means the cats are easily removed from the table with couple of well placed bow shots or spells.

What this means is that the queen will never get a good chance to actually play around with her special rules.

Their needs to be a balance between how many cats the queen can take to how effective they are on the table.
With one cat she is shut down and will never get a chance to play around with her spells two many cats and she overwhelms her opponents.

Because of this fact the amount of cats bases the queen can take needs to be increased to a reasonable number.

Taking a leaf from the spider queen and farmer maggot here and that 3 cat bases instead of one will be the ticket. ( something like 3 cats to a base mutplied by 3 makes her 9 cats) I'd also suggested that to combat the fragility of the cats from bowfire to also increase their defence to 3.

The last thing I would like to see an increase in her points. Right now she's 65 which I feel is a bit to cheap for the spell support she provides.

I don't think that increasing her points directly is the way to go however. If we did increase her cats to a point where she can take 3 bases then making the points cost of the cats 10 instead of 6 would be the slight increase she needs.

What these changes will do is encourage play and counter play with the queen. Do you target the queen to remove her as well as the cats or do you knock out the cats early with bow fire crippling the Queens range.

-Kylie

Re: Queen Beruthiel - Playtest

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:47 am
by Matt-Shadowlord
Thanks for the suggestions. I prefer 3 to 9 bases of cats on the battlefield, but even that might be a little much; apart from the aestetics, the Queen only has 5 might, some of her spells require 2 dice to be used reliably, so she isn't likely to need a large amount of cats for most of the game.

"What these changes will do is encourage play and counter play with the queen. Do you target the queen to remove her as well as the cats or do you knock out the cats early with bow fire crippling the Queens range. " sounds like a fun conundrum, but I think players would solve it the moment they realise she just ran out of Will and the cats are fairly redundant. It would be different if she was a caster with 1 pt of will per turn, but that is a completely different hero class.

I'd like to try it out so will convince someone local to do a playtest game where she runs 3 cats, but for the 1st edition of the pdf will leave it at one. Again, thanks for the input.

Re: Queen Beruthiel - Playtest

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:27 am
by Kalle
Instead of rising the cats defense to 3 to make it less easy target for spells and arrows, could it be considered to be having an Elven cloak?
Cats are fragile, but hard to hit.

Re: Queen Beruthiel - Playtest

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:53 am
by Lady Kindle
Kalle wrote:Instead of rising the cats defense to 3 to make it less easy target for spells and arrows, could it be considered to be having an Elven cloak?
Cats are fragile, but hard to hit.


That could work.
The Problem I had when I played a little game the other day was that the cats just kept getting shot out. 1 base of cats no matter how many wounds or well protected does eventually get hit with archery if your opponent is spreading out and opening up better fire corridors.
It was kinda disappointing since we really want to try and get to a point where the Queen could get a spell off through the cats, but it never happened.

The Two best options me and my opponent came up with was either
1) Make the base of cats stronger or
2) Have more cat bases

For the style of play that the groups in my area play with the more cats option be better as it would allow us to threat from more directions instead of trying to just protect The queen and 1 base of cats from a Legolas.

Re: Queen Beruthiel - Playtest

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:44 am
by Matt-Shadowlord
Thanks for reporting on the game. I think the issue is when you actually get down to using them on the table, you find that a normal caster can pop out, cast and move back in the same turn, where as since these are just used as her eyes they have to stay visible in order to be used. That weakness is not necessarily a problem - they aren't priced or designed to be too hard for an opponent to counter.

If you have another with the Queen, could you please try it with 2 or 3 bases and report how it goes?

Instead of rising the cats defense to 3 to make it less easy target for spells and arrows, could it be considered to be having an Elven cloak?
Cats are fragile, but hard to hit.


That's an interesting idea, but probably overkill. They'd be due a price bump, which isn't ideal for an essentially disposable model. (I mean from a gaming point of view, sorry cat lovers :D)

Re: Queen Beruthiel - Playtest

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:24 pm
by Kalle
Another thing. How does it go according to ability to cast spells in the beginning, during or in the end of the move phase? When it is Beruthiels turn she and her kittens move and spell is cast by the normal rules while one of them is having his/her move phase? Yeah, I guess it isn' t complicated.

Re: Queen Beruthiel - Playtest

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:30 am
by Matt-Shadowlord
Kalle wrote:Another thing. How does it go according to ability to cast spells in the beginning, during or in the end of the move phase? When it is Beruthiels turn she and her kittens move and spell is cast by the normal rules while one of them is having his/her move phase? Yeah, I guess it isn' t complicated.


Actually it would be default casting rules, in other words the Queen casts it during her move, and other models can't move until her move is finished. The cats may be used for the source of the spell, but they aren't able to move out, have her cast from their base, then move back.

So it's the default rule, but if one person has a question others are likely to. I have edited to make it clearer, 'Cats of Beruthiel During her move, Queen Beruthiel can draw line of sight and range from her Cats when casting a spell'

Re: Queen Beruthiel - Playtest

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:07 am
by Ironfoot Dain
Did GW release a model for Queen Beruthiel or is that an urban legend?

Re: Queen Beruthiel - Playtest

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:48 am
by Co├źn
A released model wouldn't exactly constitute an urban legend.

They produced one, but never released it (and it's far from alone in that). With the right contacts and likely a substantial amount of money, some people have acquired one though: http://www.shadowandflame.co.uk/#!Queen ... c6436e9a8f

Re: Queen Beruthiel - Playtest

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:24 pm
by Matt-Shadowlord
Want!

Image

Image

But in the meantime, I am working on a proxy.