D O Smaug discussion

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Re: D O Smaug discussion

Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:31 am

fat-hobbit wrote:
theavenger001 wrote:
fat-hobbit wrote:However, Bolg looks like a spoilt brat not a leader of armies.

It's a good thing that's what he is then! Azog is the army general, and Bolg is his spoiled brat son. Bolg isn't the army leader. ;)


Blog will become the leader if the story followed Tolkien's writings.

quote from lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Bolg
"In The Hobbit, Bolg was the son of Azog of Moria, succeeding him after his death in the Battle of Azanulbizar (the last battle of the War of the Dwarves and Orcs) in TA 2799 by Dain who became Dain Ironfoot."

Clearly PJ is not following Tolkien though....Whether Bolg dies before BoFA at the hands of Legolas, or with his pappy at BoFA, they will both die next move imo.

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Re: D O Smaug discussion

Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:40 pm

fat-hobbit wrote:
theavenger001 wrote:
fat-hobbit wrote:However, Bolg looks like a spoilt brat not a leader of armies.

It's a good thing that's what he is then! Azog is the army general, and Bolg is his spoiled brat son. Bolg isn't the army leader. ;)


Blog will become the leader if the story followed Tolkien's writings.

quote from lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Bolg
"In The Hobbit, Bolg was the son of Azog of Moria, succeeding him after his death in the Battle of Azanulbizar (the last battle of the War of the Dwarves and Orcs) in TA 2799 by Dain who became Dain Ironfoot."


In fairness they already busted the Azog story line in terms of canonicity, Azog should not have lived long enough to even be in the first film other than getting his head removed in the flashback at the Battle of Moria's gate. I'm not especially bothered by the 'role reversal' if truth be told, who knows Jackson might surprise us and let Azog die before the battle of 5 armies so that Bolg gets to take his rightful place in the third movie. I found it much more annoying that Jackson has reduced the Orcs of Gundabad to the lackeys of the necromancer instead of being a power in their own right.

Having seen the film now I think people are making way too much of the alleged 'Bolg redesign', all they have really done is take off the dodgy wig and scalped dwarf beards, much of the armour is very similar (aside from the chest piece) and the weapon is almost identical, but actually I think the Orc himself is pretty well the same (he's also not as obviously CGI'd as Azog), even to the point of his skin tone and discoloured lower lip.

*MASSIVE SPOILER ALERT*

The film did however play host to Jackson's worst crime against Tolkien to date - the Tauriel-Kili romance, not just something that didn't happen in the story but actually something that could never occur in that world setting at all, ever. Seriously, it would be roughly analogous to a human falling in love with a diseased pig.

Also, did anyone else find Orlando bloom's portrayal of Legolas as even more annoying than in LotR?

EDIT: so I'm just thinking over the film and... something occurred to me, I don't remember Thrain being in it at all, broken or otherwise, or did I just miss him? The scenes in Dol guldur were pretty awesome, I loved the idea of Gandalf breaking the spell to make it all visible, but the likeness to Isengard in the Two Towers just felt a bit too forced. I have a nasty feeling that the White Council's attack on DG in movie three is going to turn into a rescue mission to save Gandalf, which is a little sad, especially as there doesn't seem to be any good reason at all why Sauron didn't just kill him.
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Re: D O Smaug discussion

Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:26 am

Gandalf, which is a little sad, especially as there doesn't seem to be any good reason at all why Sauron didn't just kill him.


I think it may be because if Sauron killed him, Gandalf would just return back as a stronger power. But kept in captivity without his staff would severely reduce his ability to have an impact on the world.

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Re: D O Smaug discussion

Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:06 am

I'm not sure ascension is an automatic process for an Istari, otherwise why don't they all just throw themselves off the nearest cliff? I got the impression that Gandalf's promotion in LotR was a rare boon granted by the Valar as a result of both Gandalf's bravery at taking on a Balrog and Saruman's fall.

The whole sequence in Dol Guldur just felt a little too forced, like Jackson was trying to recreate the sequence from Isengard in tTT too precisely, with Gandalf looking down from his prison on the forges and mustering armies, to the huge army of armoured orcs marching out of the main gate. In the scene where he looks out over the fortress below I was half expecting him to leap off the ledge on to the back of an eagle...
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Re: D O Smaug discussion

Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:13 pm

Lord Hyper wrote:
Gandalf, which is a little sad, especially as there doesn't seem to be any good reason at all why Sauron didn't just kill him.


I think it may be because if Sauron killed him, Gandalf would just return back as a stronger power. But kept in captivity without his staff would severely reduce his ability to have an impact on the world.


I think Spiney Norman is right...
Spiney Norman wrote:I'm not sure ascension is an automatic process for an Istari, otherwise why don't they all just throw themselves off the nearest cliff? I got the impression that Gandalf's promotion in LotR was a rare boon granted by the Valar as a result of both Gandalf's bravery at taking on a Balrog and Saruman's fall.


In the Silmarilion book, Morgoth (Sauron's master) held several elf and human lords as prisoner's. They were tortured and humiliated for his own pleasure. Sometime there was other reason's to keep them alive, such as allowing their friends to see their pain so that a rescue attempt may be made. Whatever the reason, I'm disappointed that PJ deviates from the book by showing Gandalf's staff shattering. Hope he has a good supply at Rivendell.
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Re: D O Smaug discussion

Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:26 pm

Just got around to watching DOS last night with my kids. We all enjoyed it. I enjoyed the thing as comedy rather than anything more though. In fact I laughed out loud at one point, which is the first time I have done that in a cinema in years! The trouble was, I wasn't sure whether I was laughing *with* the movie or *at* it! The moment was the barrel ride combat. At the point we got the Bombur Barrel Dreadnought, and also when Leggy was dancing on the barrel riders heads. It was so ludicrous it went into complete farce and self-parody.

Which was fair enough. If you are going to rip up Tolkien and do your own thing because you think you know better what is a good story then you may as well be completely ridiculous and make people laugh I suppose.

Maybe I'm just an old grump, but I really do think the world would have been a better place with the Professor's more gentle but amusing tale instead of this epic 9-hour CGI-fest that it has been inflicted with. Still. Them's the breaks.
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Re: D O Smaug discussion

Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:14 pm

fat-hobbit wrote:In the Silmarilion book, Morgoth (Sauron's master) held several elf and human lords as prisoner's. They were tortured and humiliated for his own pleasure. Sometime there was other reason's to keep them alive, such as allowing their friends to see their pain so that a rescue attempt may be made. Whatever the reason, I'm disappointed that PJ deviates from the book by showing Gandalf's staff shattering. Hope he has a good supply at Rivendell.


Gandalf's staff seems to be a bit like Dr Who, every time it gets broken it regenerates into something different. At least this explains why he has been running around with a staff that looks diffence to his lotr staff for the last two films. I'm sure Radagast can cut him a new one from one of the trees in Mirkwood, if he gets the staff he uses in LotR in the next film that will be a cute tie-in.
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Re: D O Smaug discussion

Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:51 am

But how about Thrain the Broken? Is this another concept that didn't make it in even in the post production, or will we see him in the EE? Maybe if the Bree flashback in the beginning is expanded in large, we could see an encounter of Gandalf and Thrain in Dol Guldur.

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Re: D O Smaug discussion

Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:59 pm

I think its going to be in the EE.

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Re: D O Smaug discussion

Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:28 am

I just want to mention about Gandalfs staff. Compare the staff he uses in Lord of the rings with Radaghasts staff...

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